September 1, 2020 - 2:00pm to 3:00pm

Joyce welcomes Judy Heumann, author and disability rights leader to the show. Judy is an American disability rights activist. She is recognized internationally as a leader in the disability community. Her memoir, "Being Heumann: An Unrepentant Memoir of a Disability Rights Activist,” published by Beacon Press and audio recorded by Ali Stroker, available on IndieBound, Barnes & Noble, and Amazon. Heumann is a lifelong civil rights advocate for people with disabilities. Through her work at the World Bank and the State Department, Heumann led the mainstreaming of disability rights into international development. Her contributions extended the international reach of the independent living movement. She is a central character of Crip Camp, with the Obamas as the Executive Producers and will discuss this documentary and her lifelong advocacy on behalf of Americans with disabilities during the show.

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DISABILITY MATTERS WITH JOYCE BENDER

SEPTEMBER 1, 2020

 

 

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     >> News, opinions. Your voice counts. Call toll free, 1‑866‑472‑5787. 1‑866‑472‑5787. VoiceAmerica.com.
     (MUSIC)
      Welcome to "Disability Matters" with your host, Joyce Bender. All comments, opinions and views from the show are solely those of the guests and callers. Now your host of "Disability Matters", here is Joyce Bender.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the show. Welcome to fall! The beginning of September. Wow, did this go fast. Did you know ‑‑ did you notice if you're working from home during this time, it seems like it's faster, like faster than ever? I don't understand that. But, boy, it seems like Monday/Friday. Monday/Friday. Seems like we're on a spaceship, but I want to send a special shout out to my dear friend, Yoshiko Dart. This year as we're celebrating the 30th anniversary of the signing of the ADA. I think about Yoshiko and her late husband, Justin, all the time. Two people that were instrumental in seeing the ADA signed, and a special shoutout to my two friends, Don Young with the Embassy in South Korea and Richard Roberts in Okinawa. Both with the State Department. I love both of them and I'm so excited to tell you, we have an upcoming show and I'll tell you more details before the end of the show from South Korea, thanks to Richard. I love you, Richard. And to the listeners in the 17 countries, China being the largest, I got to tell you, I appreciate everything you do. Even that one listener in Iceland. Hey, it all gets started with one person.
      So, you know, if you've been listening to the show for the past four years, our sponsor has been Highmark right here in Pittsburgh. I want to thank you for your incredible dedication. I also want to thank new sponsors, people's natural gas, Wells Fargo, and the employment options, everything company dedicated to quality of life and spreading the news about people with disabilities. Now I've got to tell you, I have no words to tell you how absolutely ‑‑ not only excited but honored I am with our guest today. First of all, I'm very blessed to tell you she is a friend of mine. I've known her for, you know, a long time. I've always been just in such admiration of her, and I'm talking about Judy Heumann, an author portrayed in a recent documentary, speaker, international speaker, formerly worked at the State Department and with education in two different presidential administrations. And just an advocate beyond belief. Such an honor to have you. Judy, welcome to the show.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: So great to be with you. Yeah. We know each other for more years than we care to know at the moment. We're getting older, everybody.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: (Laughs) Yeah. You know what? I met you around the time that I won the President's Award in the Clinton Administration. That's 1999. So I'm going to tell it. Even though you told me not to.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: 21 years.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Yeah. We've known each other a long time. It's been joyful for me to know you, you know, you're just ‑‑ I'm going to tell you all something. When I went on these trips with the State Department to Indonesia, to Japan, no matter where I am, people would say, Judy, do you know Judy? Do you know Judy Heumann? I mean, around the world. She is so well‑known. And more well-known I'm sure with this movie and this fabulous book, and I didn't even know where to start, although I got some ideas from Judy's book. But I wanted to talk to you first, Judy, about your parents. Because you know ‑‑ 
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Let me say one thing. Everybody, the name of the movie that we're talking about is "Crip Camp". C‑R‑I‑P Camp. And for those of you who have access to Netflix, it's available on Netflix. It's in 29 languages, and captioned in 29 languages, and it's also audio described. The audio descriptions are in 19 languages. The name of the book is "Being Heumann". My last name, H‑E‑U‑M‑A‑N‑N. And it's also in audio version that was read by an actress in the United States who is a disabled woman, Ally Stroker. You can get it on Amazon.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Yeah. I want to add to that and say that Judy is like the main, major character portrayed in Crip Camp. I was telling Judy, when I watched this with a group of people, I'm saying, hey! That's Judy! That's Judy Heumann. (Laughs) That's my friend. That's Judy. And boy, she is right. This is a great documentary. I'd encourage everyone to go to Netflix. You know, I think they should be showing this in colleges, universities, everywhere, but "Being Heumann" is a great book which we're going to talk about in a little bit.
      The beginning, as I said, the beginning of the book talked about two people that I believe not only changed your life but is the reason I'm talking to you right now, and that would be your parents. For example, your mother, you know, I could tell from reading this is, like, a force. She was a force to be reckoned with, but I wonder since we have all these listeners if you could just take a few minutes and talk about that.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Thank you, Joyce. So I had my disability when I was about 18 months old, and I think for those of us who got our disabilities when we were younger, in many ways our parents played very important roles. For me, my parents, you know, in the late 1940s when I had polio, and moving forward, we didn't see laws in the United States on issues like requiring disabled children had a right to education until 1973. We didn't see many other laws until 1975 and 1990. So really parents then and still now had to really be advocates on behalf of their children. In my face, I ‑‑ in my case, I was very fortunate that my parents both felt that they wanted me to grow up and be able to do all the things that they had wanted for me before I had polio. But what they learned they had to do was to become a strong advocate, because the experiences that we were having in the United States in the 1950s and 1960s and really through the mid‑70s were that typically many disabled children like myself, I don't walk, I use a wheelchair, can't go up and downstairs were rejecting us from going to school. We were getting something called (?) where a teacher would come to your house. Home instruction. So my mother took me to school when I was five. I was denied admission into the school because I was considered a fire hazard. The Board of Education in New York City sent a teacher to my house for two and a half hours a week. Not a day, but a week. Then when I finally started going to school when I was nine years old, the program I went to was not equivalent to the classes that non‑disabled children were taking in school. My mother learned that if you were unable to walk up and downstairs, that for high schools, people were going back to home instruction. So my mother really began to organize these other mothers to get the board of education to make changes so we wouldn't have to go back to home instruction.
      My mother learned as she went. My father worked all day, so he would be supportive and maybe go to meetings with her from time to time. I think that's what we've seen from parents. I was very fortunate that my parents didn't fought for the minimum and fought for what they felt like was the maximum. When I started going to college, it was really imperative for me to begin to assume responsibility for things my parents had done for me when I was younger. Now that I was a college student out of college, I really needed to be the one taking responsibility for myself.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Yeah. How much it makes a difference having advocates, and right now as you said, children with disabilities still need advocates in school to help them with their education. With their rights. With their rights in school. I want to move on to this fabulous book of yours, "Being Heumann", as you said, H-E-U-MA-N-N. "Being Heumann, An Unrepentant Memoir of a Disability Rights Advocate”. And it's so good. I'd encourage everyone to buy this book immediately. Go to Amazon and get this book immediately. I'm endorsing it. Got to get the book. First, Judy, then I'm going to ask you to read a passage, short passage from it. When did you decide and what made you decision to write this book ‑‑ you decide to write this book?
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Well, people had been suggesting to me for many decades that I write a book, and I felt that I neither had the time nor confidence to write a book for myself. I was very lucky that people reached out to me and helped me find an agent who helped me find a woman who I co‑wrote the book with. It was a wonderful experience. Difficult, because writing a story which is a memoir is personal and it's difficult, but in the end, I'm very happy that we did it.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Well, I mean, it's a great book as I said. Amazon, easiest way to get it. Amazon, and you can also get it as Judy said Audible but you can get this book in large print also. So, you know, it's the book. It's the accessible book. So, Judy, I wanted to ask you ‑‑ 
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: You can also get it on Book Share. If any of you do Book Share, you can get it on Book Share.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: And again, buy the book. Judy, would you mind ‑‑ I mean, it would mean so much to our listeners to actually hear you be the person that reads a little bit from your book.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Sure. So let me tell you that I use a motorized wheelchair now, but at the time when my memoir starts in the book, I'm a child. I'm four or five years old. I didn't get a motorized wheelchair until I was in college, because they didn't even exist until starting in the mid‑1960s, and I finally was able to get a motorized wheelchair I was ‑‑ when I was in college. So what I'm going to be reading where someone is pushing me is because I was using what we call a manual wheelchair. "I think it was a beautiful sunny day, but it might have been cloudy. I don't know. What I do remember is being caught up in my conversation with Arlene as she pushed me in my wheelchair, talking about what we were going to buy at the candy store, or what we wanted to do later that day. We were pleased to be walking around the corner to buy sweets. In front of Dr. Nagler's brick house. I knew it was his house because I've been there with my mother for her doctor's appointments. We crossed across the street. Arlene turned me around to lower my wheelchair off the curb, pushed me across the street, ask then once we reached the other side, she put her foot on the metal bar on the back of my chair, tipped me and the chair back and lifted my chair on to the sidewalk. As we did this, a few kids came up toward us in the opposite direction. They were walking slowly down the sidewalk. As they passed, Arlene shifted my wheelchair to the side to make room for them. We didn't know them and didn't pay much attention engrossed as we were in our conversation. So I was surprised when one of the kids turned suddenly to look at me. He stood in front of me staring down at me in my wheelchair. Are you sick? Yes. I stared at him not understanding. What? "Are you sick"? He repeated insistently. His voice boomed. I tried to clear the words away. I was still confused but couldn't speak. "Are you sick" he asked. Slowly the words ‑‑ slowing the words down as if I was a toddler. The world went silent as the words reverberated in my head. I couldn't hear anything except those words. "Are you sick? Sick? Sick? Sick? Sick?" I shrank down frozen from confusion wanting to cover myself up with something, anything to hide from the question. The boys insistent eyes on me. Are you sick, he asked insistently almost shouting. Suddenly I became aware of Dr. Nagler's house behind me and my face turned a cringingly deep red. Does he think I'm going to the doctor? He is not my doctor, I thought. I fought back tears. I couldn't. I wouldn't cry in front of everyone. I wasn't sick. It made no sense. I knew I wasn't, but then why was he asking me that? I became uncertain of myself. Was I sick? I saw myself through the eyes of a ‑‑ and the light around me shifted. Shadows emerged from the corners of my mind, previously submerged words, thoughts, and half‑heard conversations into the glare of a spotlight. In a blinding flash, everything in my life made a perverse kind of sense. I couldn't go to school. I couldn't go to their school. I couldn't do this. I couldn't do that. I couldn't walk up the stairs. I couldn't open doors. I couldn't even cross the street. I was different, but I'd always known that it wasn't bad. It was the world and how it saw me. The world thought I was sick. Sick people staying home in bed. They didn't go out to play or go to school. They weren't expected to go outside to be part of things. Be a part of the world. I was not expected to be a part of the world. Abruptly I knew this to be true, as if the knowledge had already existed for years throughout my entire body. I felt nauseatingly humiliated at the idea that everybody had known this but me. The embarrassment settled in as a cold felt deep in my stomach. I could feel it spreading into my limbs. Was it sunny or cloudy? I don't know. I remember Arlene was pushing me. We were going to the store to buy candy, and we were chatting. I was a butterfly becoming a caterpillar.” Thank you.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Wow. Wow. You know what? So different reading it and then hearing you read it. You know ‑‑ 
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Thank you.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: I'm thinking as you read it that doesn't it say so many things that happened, like all those years there was a medical model. This are you sick, and the pity, and everything that goes with it. And the inability as you said, really, to do anything. During that time before the ADA, here you are getting on a curb having to be pushed up, lowered down or having your friend push the bar to get you up there. Do you think that what happened to you, I'm sure, had an impact, Judy. Really on the rest of your life. Don't you think?
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: I think all these different incidents, and I speak about many of them in the book, really have an impact. Had an impact but still in many ways continue to have an impact. I think what was important about these experiences, and certainly my experiences are not unique experiences. People around the world in some cases still today are experiencing some of the things that I'm discussing. So what is different is we have been really working more together and across the disability movement with, I think as friends, our impact and also been able to make valuable changes in our laws and regulations. As more disabled people get involved in trying to obtain their rights.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Right. Just like what I'm being to ask you about yet that you talked about in your book which is the occupation army and fight for section 504. By the way, "Crip Camp" which we'll talk about in a little bit. This is in the movie. Once again, I noticed when people talk about you and think about you in our history, you know, even if it's recent history, but they talk about this. This is so important. Would you mind sharing with our listeners what you believe that means to our history but also what happened.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: So I think ‑‑ are you talking about some of the activities in the U.S.?
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Yes. Yep.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: So I would say that the United States and other countries have been benefiting from the evolution and development of the disability rights movement in the United States. By that ‑‑ and around the world. By that I mean as we as disabled individuals have begun to recognize that we will fight for our rights, that it's no longer a nicety, but it's really something which is imperative to us. Our ability to contribute to society is something that has been adversely impacted by society in general and government too, in not recognizing that there have been barriers that we have been experiencing. Discrimination that needs to be rectified. So in the U.S., we have been seeing as I said earlier numerous laws that have been developed and ultimately passed into law. We have also seen the U.N. convention and rights of persons with disabilities which most countries around the world have, in fact, ratified. Unfortunately the United States has not yet ratified, and we are seeing a growing movement of people who are working with government to get laws introduced and passed to require accessibility. Removal of discrimination in the area of employment. In the area of education. Removing barriers of discrimination that's limited our participation in schools, both early childhood, primary, secondary, and higher education. There are many things that have been happening as a result of the strengthening of our movement, and I think one of the other important assets is the ability and the fact that disabled people are amongst the poorest of the poor because of lack of education, and because of limited job opportunities. Not limited capacity but limited job opportunities.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Well, yes, and all of that is so true. Someone actually, Marca Bristo, you know, when I heard her speak first time, it was when she was the chair of the National Council on Disabilities. And you know what I remember her saying? Disabilities and poverty go hand in hand. And sadly, we lost Marca, and I know that you mentioned her right at the beginning of this book. I wonder if you want to talk for just a few minutes about Marca and your relationship with her.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Absolutely. Marca was one of the heroes in the disability rights movement. She has a very typical story. She passed away last year, almost a year ago today. Marca was in her early 20s, and she dove into water in the Chicago area not realizing that the area that she was diving into was very shallow. So she broke her neck, and she became a paraplegic. She had been an activist before she acquired her disability. So she really over a couple year period of time really started taking on the role of fighting for the rights of disabled people. She had a very important experience in her life. After she became disabled, she was beginning to take on the attitudes of the medical model, not the right space model. She was thinking that she was not going to be able to work again. She was a nurse, and she had a call one day from the hospital that she had worked in, and they had ‑‑ a nurse said there was a project going on in Berkeley, California, that she wanted her to go to. It was a training on disabilities. When Marca went to that conference, she really became inspired by the work being done at that time in what we call the Bay Area or San Francisco Bay community in the area of disability. She came back to Chicago and continued work that she had started to do with other local disabled people who set up a Center for Independent Living in Chicago. That effort on her part to recognize that she needed to speak up and out she had the capacity even though she had a disability, and that she wanted to be able to not only use her skills in a way that would help advance the right to disabled people but wanted to do it in a powerful way. She became the first director of an organization Chicago called Access Living. To her dying day, she not only was an activist on behalf of Independent Living from the Chicago area across the United States, and Access Living who is the organization ‑‑ which is the organization she helped create was an organization that started at ‑‑ really had started in Chicago. Between 1978, 1979, and she died a year ago in 2019, Marca only continued to grow and become a leader in the independent living movement in the U.S. and around the world.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Yeah. I only wish that, you know, unlike you, I didn't know her as well as you do. I did know her and, you know, what a great person. It was truly a terrible loss when she passed away, but she will not be forgotten because of all the things you just talked about that she did.
      Before we talk about Crip Camp, just to set the stage, you really took over with that Federal Department of Health Education and Welfare like no one else ever has, and before you talk about it, I know it's here in your book. You were ‑‑ well, first tell everyone what this is all about and what you did and how people really don't know how difficult that was for many people that had catheters or that needed medication like me for epilepsy or whatever. Whatever it was. Share with everyone what happened and why you did this.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Well, in the United States, we had a law that had been passed in 1973. In that law, there was a provision that if an entity receives money from the federal government, it could not discriminate against a disabled person. That basically meant hospitals, governments, public schools, universities, not only would not be able to discriminate in the services they were providing but also would have to ensure their employment policies no longer discriminated against disabled people. One of the reasons why this particular (?) was very important to me was because I had experience and discrimination when I applied to become a teacher in New York. I was denied my right to become a teacher based on the fact that I was unable to walk, and I sued the Board of Education and was able to get my teaching license. So when Section 504 came out in the regulation form, we decided that it was so imperative that we were going to fight to make sure that these rules were, in fact, implemented in a way that would grant disabled people the rights that the laws prescribe. There was a group set up called the American Coalition of Citizens with Disabilities. One of the main purposes was to bring disabled people together from different communities to fight for the rights of disabled people, and this particular provision of law was one that we were working very hard on.
      One of the reasons we were working really hard on this was because we had also been very invested in the development of what we call in the United States rules, basically it's an explanation of what the law says and explains what discrimination is, who is protected by the law, what can happen if discrimination has occurred, on and on. When the Republicans were in power, at that point it was President Nixon and a little bit of this is probably only of interest to a few people, but President Nixon was the president and then President Ford. And when the Republicans left office, they still had not signed the rule. President Carter was elected as president. He was a Democrat. He had said that he would have the regulation signed. Well, when he came into office, the person who was given responsibility for doing this began to do a review. We were hearing from people inside the government that the review he was looking at doing was in fact going to weaken the proposed regulations. We decided that would not be acceptable. We had been working with people for five years around the United States on these regulations and that we were going to insist that they be signed as they were. When that didn't happen, we decided to have demonstrations around the United States. That's what happened. In San Francisco, which is on the West Coast of the United States, there was a very strong community of disabled people. I had moved from Washington ‑‑ sorry. I had moved from New York City from Brooklyn to California, and I was working there with many other people, and we basically decided in conjunction with groups around the United States that if the regulations were not signed by a certain date, that we were going to have the demonstrations which we did, and in San Francisco what happened was we decided that we were going to stay in the building. We stayed in the building for about 27 days. Until the government agreed that it would sign the rules as they were when we began the demonstrations, and they did. It was a very empowering experience because we were really able across the country to work together and demonstrate that why we felt the regulations needed to be signed and to be able to persuade the powers that be that they needed to be signed without any further change.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: So this is health education and welfare federal building.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Right.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Isn't this, like, the longest occupation of a federal building ever?
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Yep. It's the longest demonstration.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Yeah. And, you know, weren't you real involved in getting this going because when I read in the book when you suggested this, you were kind of nervous. You didn't know what everyone would say.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Yeah. We had done it under the American Coalition of Citizens with Disabilities but we didn't really know what was going to happen. We weren't sure if people were going to ‑‑ I mean, it kind of unfolded slowly. We had a rally outside this particular government building. We had a meeting with the gentleman who was the head of the regional office in San Francisco, and the reason we ultimately decided to stay in the building was because there was completely ‑‑ they were completely unprepared. They did not know the answer to the questions that we were asking them. They didn't really know what the law was. We felt that if, because they know that this meeting was coming about before it happened, and they had failed to do their homework and were unable to answer anything that clearly was an indication that they were not going to take what we believe needed to happen seriously.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Well, a lot of this is talked about in that great movie we talked about, so how did that come to be and, you know, I just thought that was incredible that, you know, these young people with disabilities went to this camp and were all over, the no pity, the independence, and ended up, some of you being these national advocates. How did this great movie come to be, because you're like the feature character.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Well, I had nothing to do with the production. For those of you who haven't seen it and those of you who have, this was a film that was the inspiration by a gentleman named Jimmy LaBreck. He grew up in New York. He is a disabled guy. He went to regular school. This one particular summer, he went to this camp called Camp GenEd which was a camp for disabled kids. I went there for a number of years when I was younger. There was many camps in the United States at that time for kids with disabilities. There were camps for non‑disabled kids, and usually disabled kids did not go to the camps where the other kids went to camp. Jimmy came to camp. I was there the summer he was there. Many, many other kids were there also. What was unique about this particular summer was there was a little organization that that is right started in it ‑‑ started in the community that had video cameras. They were ‑‑ they came to the camp and offered to train some of the campers on how to use the video camera. Here you had this camp of younger disabled people, like 12 years old to about 18 or 19, and we were teenagers. But we also, being able to come together at this camp were not only talking about things that disabled and non‑disabled kids talked about. We also really began to get involved in discussing our experiences. Our experiences meaning being segregated. The kinds of discrimination that we were experiencing that people typically didn't even acknowledge as discrimination. What you can see in the film is not only our experience at camp but then what happened as many of us moved on in high school and at university and how and why we became activists.
      I think the film is valuable for a number of reasons. One is it really gives an example of some of the importance of developments that went on at camp when disabled kids were able to come together, and really talked about our experiences as disabled individuals in our communities. And also how we really empowered each other. We were really beginning to talk about what we felt could be different and how we wanted to make that happen. I think for some reason, they were just coincidences of opportunities that we were taken advantage of. We, meaning a number of us who had been to this camp, but there were other people who also were very involved in the movement, are very involved in the movement who weren't at the camp. It was really a combination of people, but I think those of us who ‑‑ there were about 150 people who were in the federal building, most of whom were there for the full days, 24 or 25 days we were in the building. I along with about 22 other people left the building and went to Washington, D.C. to link up with disabled people around the country, and I think it was a combination of the work going on in San Francisco and the work going on in the U.S. Capitol that made the government sign the regulation.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Yeah. That movie just really ‑‑ really, I'm encouraging everyone. You've got to see that movie. As you said, it was really just the being together. I want to go back to one minute with the federal building. Remember I said, this was involved. People don't realize how hard this was for many people with disabilities. What I wanted to ask you is what part did the Black Panthers play in your time in that building?
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: So one of the leaders in the building, a guy named Brad Womack, was a disabled man who was a member of the  of the Black panthers. They were very involved in providing food for us which made of course possible for us to be able to stay in the building. I think it's important to recognize that the Bay Area was kind of unique, the San Francisco Bay Area because the vast majority of politicians supported what we were doing. We were having peaceful demonstrations. We weren't bothering people, although obviously people were not able to work in their offices and some of the offices in the building because we had occupied space. I think over time people were also recognizing that what we were fighting for was just, and really supporting what we were trying to do. I think that was important. People felt while in the building, if you really felt you couldn't stay for health reasons, people left. I think obviously there was 150 people there almost every day. Few people left and came back. Some people left and others came in. The bottom line was people really were working together. We believed we could get these regulations signed, and that if we left, it wouldn't happen.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Yeah. Right. Well, I just thought that part was a great story. I want to mention because wow, how did the show go so fast? Oh, my goodness. This is unbelievable. Judy, I would like you to consider coming back in December, because not only is that your birthday, it's my birthday. December 7.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Oh, you know what? You know what? My father's birthday is December 7. My late father. Amazing.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Oh, my goodness. Isn't that something? Lot loved my dad. Yes.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Wow. Well, there you go. You'll never forget my birthday now.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: I won't.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Nope. But anyway, I'd like to have you back on and read another portion of your book, because I'm thinking to myself, what a great holiday gift when people are having a hard time thinking what am I going to do. I think it does another thing. I think we have to continue, especially during this time we're in right now, we have to continue talking to one another, educating one another. We can't go into isolation. I know it's hard. It's hard for all of us. It's hard for people like Judy and I that want to be out and about and cannot. I really would like to think that ‑‑ I hope you're able to come back, Judy.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: We'll work it out. That would be great.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Great. That would be wonderful. Before we close the show today, do you have a message for young people with disabilities, by the way, with disabilities. Not differently abled and all these different words. Do you have any advice for any young people with disabilities listening to the show?
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: I have a message, not just for young people. Because I think, you know, in the area of disability, people acquire their disabilities at different points in their life. Certainly my message is ‑‑ for young people with disabilities and also with people who may be acquiring their disabilities in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, whatever it may be, disability is a normal part of life. Disability, I believe, gives us strength. It GIFKs us resilience. It allows us to be role models for what other people could do, even when they feel they can't. It also makes it incumbent upon us to speak up and out, and to be really demanding more of our governments, making sure that we have good laws, that these laws are implemented. I think it's also really important that we work in collaboration with other movements. Not everybody wants to join organizations, but I encourage you, for those of you that do like working in organizations looking for disability‑run organizations that are ethical and are doing PORNLT work in a ‑‑ important work in a way that is similar to your vision of what needs to happen. Working together, being collaborative, and respecting yourself and demand that respect for disabled people be something that occurs in our society all the time.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: What a great message. I agree with you 100%. I ‑‑ we have a quote at the end of every show. I decided to get a quote from "Being Heumann". Something that Judy had in the book, and this actually is what you're just talking about now. Working with and remembering other people, and Judy said perhaps we need to remember what Shirley Chisholm, the first Black congresswoman and the author of an (?) said, and here it is, wow. What a powerful quote. "You don't make progress by standing on the sidelines, whimpering and complaining. You make progress by implementing ideas". And, Judy, you live that. No doubt about it. Judy, thank you so much for being with us today. Listen, everyone. You can get ‑‑ call all your friends. They can subscribe to my radio show. "Disability Matters" with Joyce Bender, and they can hear the show or go to Apple, Spotify, or voiceAmerica.com and share it and tell everyone else about it. Thank you again, Judy. We love you and look forward to having you on again.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Thanks, Joyce. Thank you.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: All right. My pleasure.
     >> JUDY HEUMANN: Bye.
     >> JOYCE BENDER: Talk to you next week, everyone. This is Joyce Bender, America's voice where "Disability Matters" at voiceAmerica.com. Happy ADA 30 this year. That's why we had on a real legend and part of that movement. See you next week.
     >> Voice America would like to thank you for tuning in. Join us next Tuesday for another installment of "Disability Matters" right here on the Voice America Variety Channel. We are the leader in talk Internet radio. VoiceAmerica.com.

(Program concluded at 2:00PM CT)

 

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